Season 6 returns on August 16, 2023!!!!
Sept. 18, 2019

2.04 A Conversation with Kevin Holly

2.04 A Conversation with Kevin Holly

This week Jimmy continues the technical theatre unit as he speaks to technical theatre teacher Kevin Holly from Libertyville, Illinois!  He speaks about some of his experiences from his career, a high school production of Starlight Express, and he offers technical theatre tips and tricks we can all use in our classroom.  He also checks in with his student teacher, Kelli!

Kevin’s Recommended Resources:

Stage Directions Magazine- http://stage-directions.com/

Scott Parker’s Website- www.hstech.org

Develop relationships with vendors in your area!

USITT- https://www.usitt.org/

NITE- Northern Illinois Theatre Educators (Facebook Group, Self-formed Professional Learning Community)

Check out a tour of Kevin’s Starlight Express track below!

 

Transcript

Jimmy Chrismon:

Hello everyone and welcome back to season two episode four of THED Talks. I'm your host, Jimmy Chrismon. Thank you for joining us. THED Talks is a podcast for theatre teachers and theatre education students. Each week I want to bring you stories and interviews from experienced K-12 theatre teachers, current theatre education majors and professors at theatre education that will warm your heart, renew your faith in teaching and provide resources to better your practice in your theatre classrooms. Thank you so much , so much for listening this week. I have a great episode in store for you. Before we jump into my interview, I do want to mention that a , there is a new segment on the show that we are happy to bring in the next couple of weeks and we'd love for you to participate in. The new segment is called, So This Just Happened. Have you ever had something happen in your theatre class or your rehearsal or would you like to know how other theatre teachers would react to a particular situation? Do you feel alone in your school building and want to ask a fellow theatre teacher how they did or would handle it? Do you think surely no one else has encountered what you have? Well, I want to hear from you. Most of us are alone in our schools and even our districts. Sometimes we just need to vent and gain perspective. Sometimes we just want advice. Sometimes you just want to hear someone else has been through the same thing that you're going through. So we're asking that you submit your scenario, your question or your situation to us so that we can read them on the show and discuss possible responses, solutions and interventions to your submissions. My friend Mimi Kuykendall is going to join me on the show to discuss these topics just as she would on our drives home from work where we would call each other and vent about something or reach out to each other and say, what would you do if, and that's what this is about. So we're asking you to submit as many topics and ideas for us to discuss as you want to. Please only submit those topics that do not need immediate attention and are not emergency type questions. Also, if you'd like to discuss it with us on the show, we'd love to have you join in the conversation with us. So on my website, www.thedtalks.com just click on the page. So this just happened. Scroll down and there's a form for you to fill out and if you want to be on the show, there's a place for you to enter your contact information so that we can get ahold of you and we can have that conversation and let others share in our experiences and our thoughts on how you handle things. So check that out. That's thedtalks.com. So this just happened. So looking forward to hearing, hearing your thoughts and your , your topics that you want to discuss and those problems and hopefully we can help find some solutions. I want to turn my attention now to my interview with Kevin Holly . He is a tech director at Libertyville High School in Libertyville, Illinois. Uh , had a wonderful conversation with him and , uh, he's going to provide you some, some resources and some tools to use , uh , for those of us non technical theatre people and how we can strengthen our practice with that. So this is part two in my series on technical theatre, so I hope you get a lot out of it. Ladies and gentlemen, this is my conversation with Kevin Holly. I'm excited to welcome , uh , to THED Talks today. Kevin Holly, who is, a technical director at Libertyville High School in Libertyville, Illinois. Uh , he has been teaching and doing tech and theatre for 31 years and uh , I'm gonna let him tell you a little bit of more about his experience and about where he is currently in a little bit about the program that he set . So Kevin, welcome to the show and uh, I look forward to hearing more about you .

Kevin Holly:

Yes, Jimmy, thank you so much for having me. Um , I've been listening to some of the podcasts that you've already done it , so it's a really cool thing, so I'm happy to be part of it .

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, thank you for joining me. So, so tell me a little bit about where you are and what goes on at Libertyville.

Kevin Holly:

Oh yeah. So , um , you know, I'm , I'm part of the program, but I have to say it's a pretty great program. Um, we, first of all, we get just tons of support from our parents, our administration, our school board , um, you know, provides most of the stuff that we need . It's , it's a really unique situation now. I've taught it in a few different places over my 31 years. And , um , this is a pretty great place to be. Um, we have a great program. We have just extremely talented students. You know , they do all the work. We get , uh , some of the credit based on , uh , you know, on feedback from the community and from parents. And , um, also I feel blessed that we've been nominated for a illinois high school musical theatre awards in a few categories a couple of different times. So to see that other people are recognizing the talent and the dedication that our students get, it's really, it's really a great thing. Um, so, you know, we do the standard musical, a couple of plays. We do a freshman, sophomore play to try and get freshman and sophomore involved. Um, and then we do the standard, you know, student directed one act festival every year. So , um, so it's a really great program. Um, I'm really part of that'd be part of it. We have a , you know, an actual technical director, which , um , yeah , at some schools that's a luxury, you know, in the schools in the, I should say in the north suburban Chicago area. Yeah. Um, that's a pretty common thing. But, you know, and a lot of places it's not like that. So , um, and like I said before, we get great support. Um , we have a great auditorium that we perform in. Um, it's a little older, but , um, the school district has been really great with providing us the resources to keep it updated and keep the equipment current and everything like that. So that's been a fantastic place to work for the last I've been there. Um, we start my 22nd year in the fall. So,

Jimmy Chrismon:

well because you, you , you said exactly what I was thinking when , uh , uh, when you first reached out to me, a technical director in addition to another full time staff. Um, and in Illinois I'm finding multiple full time staffs. Um, that is a luxury because when I was in the classroom, I was, it, I was, I was the one until my last two years of where I was and we got a second person in, but we didn't have someone who was really the solid tech person. So what is that like and , and, and talk to me a little bit more about the , the shared responsibilities with , uh, with the other staff. a.

Kevin Holly:

Yeah, sure. Um, so obviously we have a bunch of staff that work on the musical. We have our choreographer, our musical director, our orchestra director, the director of the show. Um, did I say choreographer? I meant to say choreographer also. We usually have two technical directors who work on that show. Um, plus our customer also, we have a couple of people that share that job. Um, so , uh, and then the great thing is cause it's , um, because it's a small department, it's just me and , uh , Christopher Thomas is the, is the theatre director. And so I'm fortunate that , um, one show of the year or season , um, I get to direct. So it's really fun to do that , um, to , to work with the kids in a different way than building sets than and focusing lights and things like that. So that's really exciting. But the challenge challenges is that then I have to find someone to come in and do the technical directing part of the part of the show for me. So that's sometimes a little bit of a challenge that I've been fortunate in the last couple of years. We've had a , um, a guy who's one of our computer technicians who's really into sound. Um, actually , uh, his name is Eli Kelly . He actually has a Grammy award for sound recording and he's been , um , learning more about construction as we've gone along the last few years . And obviously it's great for the musical because he just, I don't have to do anything with sound . I just let him take care of it. So , so I feel fortunate that that , um, it's, it's small, but , um, we do lots of stuff. Like I said, we do a number of shows and I get to direct a show. Um, I'm just so proud of this. Last April I did Bleacher Bums. Um, in our, we have a smaller theatres, a studio theatre space that's a little small . It looks, if you look at it, it looks more like a lecture hall. It's really steeply raked and um, it's really small. It only has 186 seats. And so , um, I've always, you know, Bleacher Bums is one of those plays . It's always been on the shelf. Like, oh, I'd really like to direct that one time. But normally I, in the, in past years I've done the winter play and I just didn't think Bleacher Bums and February was such a great thing. But this year because of some scheduling things with Easter, you know, I think in high school you are so , uh, stuck on the calendar. Wherever those dates fall, you have to work everything around that and where everything else is going on in the other term. Anyway, long story short, I got to direct a Bleacher Bums in April during the baseball season, which was fantastic. Um, and so it was just so much fun to put that show up in a smaller space. Um, basically I tell everyone, we, we recreated Wrigley Field on industry , a theatre space, and that was just fantastic. So , um , yeah , it allows me to do lots of different stuff, which, which I love. Um, my wife who's also a teacher, she teaches English. Um, she's sort of jealous sometimes my job because you know, every, every couple of months it's a different show. You know, she's teaching Hamlet every year in the spring , you know, but we're doing a different show every, every , uh , whenever the seasons change. So that's just, that's part of the job that I love. Like it's never the same from show to show or week-to-week . Yeah, it's great.

Jimmy Chrismon:

And, and I, from when I was in the classroom that people always ask me, don't you get tired of doing the same thing? I'm like, I don't, I don't, it's, it's different every year. And, and the kids are different every year and their interests are different every year. And I get to tailor what I do to them. And so that was always one of the fun parts about my job. So tell me a little bit more about , uh, cause you are not the first teacher who has talked about it and , and , and I did as well that the students do most of the work. Uh, so, so tell me a little bit about more your more about your process , uh , with that and getting them ready to , to be able to do that.

Kevin Holly:

Okay. So , um, we , uh, we have our , um, we do all of our shows. We have a production stage manager who attends everywhere. So it's , I s it's sort of the based on, like what it would be like in a professional world. You know, they attend every rehearsal, they're responsible for keeping things organized , uh , you know, taking attendance, all the things like that. And they usually have an assistant stage manager that helps them out for the music to go into stage assistant stage managers. And then, you know, we get into tech week as the lighting designer than doing sound for the place on , you know, I'm giving the all the cues to the stage manager and you know, the stage manager then runs the show. I mean, we, the adults try to stay out of it and let them , if there's a situation that comes up, let them deal with that situation, you know, whether it's at rehearsal or whether it's during tech week or, and performance. Um, and then , uh, you know, obviously we have students running all the, all the equipment, the soundboard, the lightboard , um, you know, props master, props mistress depending on the needs of the show. Um, it's really all student run. We have crew heads that are in charge of , um , the different crews. Um, so we really try to , uh, try to give that responsibility to the students and let them, you know , have the leadership roles. Um, Christopher Thomas actually in the last couple years is even done a dramaturg for some of his shows to , to open up their eyes to that job. Um, if someone, you know, wants to be a professional and maybe the acting's not the picture dramaturg is , is , is a great place to be. Uh , in terms of a show I'm used to use, I feel like you're seeing those jobs more and more in the professional world. And so we're doing at Libertyville also. So that's exciting. So, you know, I design everything. Um, from time to time I'll have students that are more advanced, helped me out in those situations. But I , I do most of them designing and then , um, you know, and then we, when we, when we work and build stuff and hang lights, you know, the students, like I said, they do most of the work, you know , obviously as a full time technical director, I have time during the day to tweak light cues or, you know, make sure that door opens the right way or whatever. Um, but I like to say our success is really based on the, the effort and the dedication of our students. They really do, you know, most of what's going on on stage.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well and what a tremendous learning opportunity for them. That, I mean, not only the problem solving but, but learning to do it and , and having the agency just to run it and do it. Um, and , and what real world preparedness they have when they're finished with a project.

Kevin Holly:

Right. And even if they're not going into theatre, I think they've learned lots of, oh, absolutely. Responsibility and things like that. So that's really great. Cause I feel like we've seen lots of stage managers over the years go on to find great success in whatever career path they've taken. And that's, it's really awesome to see that, you know , they've had that experience and it's helped them along the way.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Yeah. Well, when you, when you initially reached out to me, you mentioned that you've been in several different types of school settings , um, Illinois and New York. So can you share a little bit more about that experience?

Kevin Holly:

Sure, yeah. Um, it's been, it's been quite a trip, I have to say on my first started out on when I first got out of Undergrad, I , um, worked at a summer theatre camp in Pennsylvania called the ETC school. Um, they don't do it anymore. Um , the people that ran it , um, you know, sort of gotten involved with their own lives. And , and the other thing too is that , um, it's, I think it's more rare, especially in the Midwest for kids to go away to camp for five weeks anymore, you know, so it's kind of, you know, but it was a fantastic experience while I was there. I was there for nine summers and the woman that ran it , um , worked at an independent school in New York City. And so , um, at some point a job came up at another independent school, which is actually up in the Bronx, Riverdale Country School. And I applied for a job there and got a job there. So I was in New York in the independent schools scene for six years, which was totally, you know , I did my student teaching in Rockford, which is sort of the northwest corner of Illinois. Um, a real sort of , um, you know, mix of, of race and economic situations at that school. Um, it was fascinating, you know, in all the classes of sizes were huge and , um, it was a real challenge. And then to go to an independent school like that where the classes were tiny and , um, but the most difficult thing about that was, is that , um, the students, because I was up in the Bronx, the students were, all the students got on buses in Manhattan and were bused up every day. So that the degree of geographic challenge was, was hard. It was sometimes hard to get them up , um, to the school, like on a Saturday for rehearsals and things like that. So we did most of our stuff Monday through Friday, which was a huge challenge. Um, so after six years of that, I decided to, I'm from Illinois originally. I decided to move back to Illinois and I worked at , uh , for three years at Elk Grove High School with a college friend of mine. And , um, and I was happy there, although I was sort of like , um, I was doing two jobs. I was working in the library during the day, and then I was doing the theatre stuff after school or you know, on the weekends. So that was a challenge. It was sort of like having two full time jobs. Um, and so I , uh, I, the job I saw the job post in for Libertyville come up and I was like, I told my wife, this is already just one job. I won't have to do two jobs to make , uh , you know, the amount of money I needed. So , um, so I went to Libertyville and , uh, oh my gosh, I've never looked back like I talked about before. It's just a fantastic place to be. And , um , uh, you know, exciting, just exciting to, to excited to be a part of what was happening in New York and the independent schools, you know, in , in the Midwest where we'd be like a private school kind of thing. They call them independent schools in New York. And I guess the biggest claim to fame that I tell everyone was at Riverdale, a Diana Ross's, a couple of her kids went there. So she came into the , uh , the graduation address when the , um, uh , when , uh , one of them graduated. So that was, it was a pretty, it was a pretty intense high-power place. You know, all the kids that went to school there, a lot of them went to Ivy League schools. Um , so it was really intense. And so there was a sort of a different situation than , you know, being from the Midwest so After a while I sort of got tired of it and that sort of pushed me back. But , um, what a great experience they have . You know, being in New York is just great. The energy is just different in New York. It's so exciting. And so fast paced and it was great to get into the city and see shows all the time and just be a part of that. Um, and that scene. Um, so it was great. It was so it's been a great , um, like I said, it's been a great 31 years. I feel like I've had just amazing experiences all the way through my career so far.

Jimmy Chrismon:

That's awesome. Um, what, speaking of your students, what, what do you, and and you get, you probably get a, an even more unique perspective than, than , um, other teachers. What, what do you see as the greatest need in your kids right now or just students in general and how can we as theatre teachers and tech, theatre teachers , um, help meet those needs?

Kevin Holly:

Um, for us, especially at Libertyville and you're seeing it more and more now in the, in the general media I feel like, but this whole concept of uh , kids and time and stress, you know , um, uh , it's high school was so much different now than I feel like when I went to school, the pressure to take AP courses and to take those tests and um, do you know, just the bar is set so high to do so well , uh , academically that it really takes away from some of the extracurricular kinds of things that I feel like it's important for the kids to have to make them well rounded. So I think, you know, obviously time management is a huge thing. Um, it's a , it's just a weird situation. In my school district, we actually have like a bonus system for all the staff if, and one of the, there's five points and one of the points says if we increase the number of kids taking AP exams, so on the one hand it rewards me financially, you know, I see the stress that these high school kids go through. I see the number, I'm talking about how late they were up the night before working on homework. And that's just that, just butts up against everything that we're doing in the theatre when we're, we're having rehearsals after school and you know , during tech week we might go till eight o'clock at night. And you know, I think the teachers at some point feel guilty that we're not letting the kids out till eight or eight 30 and they need to go home and do a couple hours of homework after that. So I feel like we need to take the, as , as theatre teachers, I think we need to support that because obviously that's a thing that's not going away. So we have to sort of, I guess for lack of a better word, this is going to sound cheesy, but we have to sort of coexist with that high academic pressure that I think the kids feel. Um, and sort of keep working theatre into that . I feel like many times we'll see kids that we'll lose over time, especially junior year and sometimes senior year because that academic pressure is just so hard. You know, kids talk about how the junior year is like really the hardest. They're taking multiple AP classes and they're getting ready for starting the college process or picking where they're going to go to school. And so I think we need to be really as theatre people. I think we're like this just in general, but we need to be really sensitive to the pressures that our students are facing. You know , not only learning their lines and getting credit for tech week or, or you know, making that scene look good and working with that other person. But you know , they have lots of homework that they need to do tonight and you know, their parents are, want them to succeed academically because they see that as a path down the road to success at university. I hear from former students how, oh yeah. Um, you know, it's my second semester of freshman year, but you know, I'm already a second semester sophomore because I have all these AP courses that I've gotten credit for and, and I don't really know what I'm going to major in yet because, you know, they have, they maybe skipped over some of those basic introductory classes because they, you know, they pass through them from AP. So , um , you know, I'm not sure what I'm going to major in yet. And so it's, it's just a , it's a hard balance I guess. So we just need to, like I said before, we just need to be sensitive to that and helping support the students wherever we can in that situation.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Yeah. I , um, when I, when I was still teaching, I taught the IB theatre classes, which is similar to AP in , in , in the, the benefits that come with it. Um , just a different way of thinking and teaching and learning. But , um, I, that same pressure was there too with those kids. And , um, even all the way down to my intro level classes, I , I just made a point that I'm , I'm not going to give you homework because I know A), it's gonna fall to the bottom of the pile , um, in, in priority for what you've got going on. And, and B) I mean, I mean, all the research says the really doesn't do anything for you. Um, so I, I made a point to not do that. And I said, you know, if, if we're working on a , a scene or a monologue and you want to work on your lines at home, you get to make that decision. But I, and I, especially with the IB class, I , I , I made it so that whatever we were doing and whatever we were working on, if we can't get it done in class, then it'll wait till next time. Um, and because that , that stress is , is crazy. It is. And it's just evident in their eyes. And we as a IB faculty in my school, we worked, we had this calendar and this matrix of, I'm doing an assessment this week then everybody else won't. And there's kind of like this calendar of assessments and projects so that we weren't hitting them all at the same time, but invariably they , they would all end up piling on top of each other anyway. Um, so I just, I think that's a really important, and, and we as theatre teachers have that flexibility that we get to do that now and we get to meet them where they are and , and, and try to make life a little easier for them. Right .

Kevin Holly:

I often tell people that the success of our extracurricular theatre program hurts our curriculum program because we just don't have the kids signing up for our classes because, you know, they're having such success on stage either in the music or the other shows. So, you know, why would they need to sign up for a, you know, an intro to theatre class. And I think, you know , uh, hopefully no counselors from my high school will be watching this. But, you know, I feel like , um, our counselors are not, you know, why do you want to take a theatre class? You know, you , when you could take this AP class or you know, the science class or , and then the other thing too is that, you know, we, we have basically we have three theatre classes and we only usually feel two of them quarter. One of the classes that the tech theatre class that we never get enough students signed up for. So I could actually teach , um , teach that class. We just have an intro theatre one then we have an acting studio class. And so with the acting studio class, you can repeat that class. And Christopher, you know, each semester he teaches it , he'll, he'll do a different thing, a different sort of unit . You know, this year they did it like a little production of monologues and scenes and another year they'll do like a children's theatre and maybe take it to schools and another year they do something else. Um, so even though you're repeating that class, you're getting something different out of it because there's a different focus. But to try to explain that to parents or a counselor to understand well yeah, just like you take choir again, you know, from year to year that you could take a theatre class from year to year, if that's something you're interested in doing, you know, but we , we have kids that go through our program and have great success in our productions and maybe take one theatre class and then they're off to college to study theatre and they've , they've hardly had any theatre classes. So it's really, it's really a challenge to , uh, to , to make that happen for our students.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, and I always tell my students, that my job, my job as a theatre teacher is not just to teach my students, but I'm , I'm teaching the administration, I'm teaching the , the counseling staff. I'm teaching the rest of the faculty. I'm parents, I'm teaching the community , um, and advocating for myself of why would I do is important and , and why kids should be a part of it. So, so thank you for , for bringing that up, cause that you're validating what I'm saying to them . Um, I as a nontechnical theatre person , um , I am always picking the brains of my technical theatre, friends of, of their tips and tricks of um, some of these things that I need, I really need to know and , and some quick, easy things that , that I can do and put in my back pocket and, and use with my kids regularly. Do you have any of those tips and tricks that you can share with us Non Technical theatre people?

Kevin Holly:

Sure. Um, well obviously um , reading material is always important. Um, Stage Directions magazine was something that I love to read cause usually some articles about lots of different stuff in there . Usually each issue has a focus. That's really great. Um, there's a website done by Scott Parker who used to be a teacher at a school in New York. It's uh, uh, hstech.org I believe is the address. We should check on that. But um, that's a great resource. It has like lots of different like how to do different things and the resources and um, and uh , lots of pictures and things to look at and see. Um, it's a resource that I use from time to time. Um, the one big thing I would say, especially if you're non tech oriented, is develop a relationship with a vendor in your area. So I have a relationships with, with a couple of different vendors, but so if you, if you need something, if you need some advice, someone that you could just call up and say, Hey, I, you know, explain this to me or you know, in my situation I'm like, oh my gosh, I need , uh , can you, can you just throw a roll of white gaff tape in a box and you know , send it to me so I can get it in the morning cause I needed it for something. It's great to have that relationship with someone that you, that you give business to and then they'll respond to issues that you have. I think it's really important to develop something like that, you know, whether it's nearby or you know, or far away, but it's something that you develop with a vendor so that it's someone you can trust, you know, that they're not going to steer you the wrong way, but they're going to give you advice when you really need it. Like especially purchasing or, you know, trying to improve your, your space or improve the equipment that you have. I think that's really important to do that. So it's someone you can call up and rely on to , to give you good advice. I think that that's really helpful.

Jimmy Chrismon:

What is one of your, your favorite , uh, memories from your career so far? A funny story. A horror story. A meaningful moment to you as a teacher.

Kevin Holly:

Okay. I'm gonna use, I'm gonna use one example that seems to happen a lot. I hear this from , um , one of our undergrads in particular, cause she has Starlight Express on the resume. Every time someone sees the musical, they're like, you're laughing. Do you know the show? I do. I thought , I thought, I thought by your chuckling that yes you do. So she has it on her resume and every time like her resume gets handed around or whatever, people are like, wait, you could still express like in your high school. And she was like, well yeah, you know, she's at U of I right now. She's in the acting program. Her name is Jackie. And I'm so Jackie Tell , she always tells me the story. Yeah, they found out that I did starlight express though. You know, it comes up in the acting class sometimes or whatever though. Oh, we'll ask Jackie. She did Starlight Express in high school. You know, it's just really funny that it comes up like that. So it's a show that I saw that I saw the original production in London when I was an Undergrad. I went to the program in London for a semester. Um, I did an insurance, an internship at a theatre, and then just saw, because theatre was so cheap in London, it was so great. I just saw so many shows and one of the shows I saw was Starlight Express now, you know, there's not a whole lot of big story in it. It's, you know, back in 1985, it was just literally a spectacle. It was a , I think it was after, I don't know if it was before or after Cats, but Andrew Lloyd Webber. Um , and then basically a story of trains for people that don't know what's the story of trains and the people in the show are on rollerskates . So our group of five or six get together every spring and try to decide what our fall musical is going to be so we can announce it at our theatre banquet and awards every year. And we were having a hard time one year, this is a few years ago. And uh, another person on our production team had seen the show in London and the choir director who coincidentally as her husband had left, he had to get ready for class or something. So we were sort of getting on and getting ready to leave. You know, the bell had rung , you know that well that's like the bell is wrong, it's time to, you know, we've gotta move on. And so you sorta just joke, well maybe we should just Starlight Express. And we were like, oh yeah, Starlight Express. And we sort of went away and thought about it and we sorta came back and said, well, could we do Starlight Express? And so I had , ever since I had seen it in London, I had always thought some, sometime someday somewhere it'll come up, Starlight Express. And my idea was, okay, if we're gonna , if I, if I as the tech person seeing that spectacle, if I'm going to do Starlight Express, then I'm going to put a ramp on stage, right? Coming off the stage into the audience, I'm going to put a ramp on stage left coming down into the audience and I'm going to take out two rows of seats and we're going to make a pathway from one ramp through the audience all the way around to the other side and up. And so they could go up the ramp , um , to the other side. And that's how, if I'm going to do it, that's what I need to do. And so again, long story short, we decided to do Starlight Express and uh, it was, I mean it was a spectacle like no other just to see. Um, we did a , we did a half pipe upstate center and to just to see the kids skate around and literally Jimmy down that ramp and across and up that ramp, it was just, it was like, it was one of those things that you , you know , you'll never forget and whatever. And I like now whenever you get a chance, like when I tell that story , um, it was just so much, it was so much fun. Um, we got away relatively injury free because with the kids on roller skates. I don't , you know, you started the kids. We had our theatre picnic like the first week of June and after the picnic was over that night, we went to a local roller rink as like the kickoff and the kids that really wanted parts went to that roller rink like every week and practiced skating. And you know, by the time we, when we did the skating auditions at that roller rink , um , to cast the show, cause obviously, you know , you needed to skate at least a little bit to be part of it . And obviously the people that skated well were the people that got the larger roles, et Cetera , etc . Etc . So I'm just so much, oh my gosh, you know, every moving light I could fit was hanging and you know, it was just, it , I, you know, I wanted to make it a spectacle and , um, we wanted to make a spectacle and , uh, so , um, and it was, and it was just so, like worthwhile to have that dream of I'm going to take out a couple rows of seats. Like that would be really cool to actually doing it and making it happen. Um, it was, it was fantastic.

Jimmy Chrismon:

I have heard of ambitious productions in high schools before and I, I have shied away from doing them cause I feared they'd be nightmares. Um , like I think of high schools that do Phantom of the Opera. I'm like, why, how , how, why would you do that? Um, and then , uh , uh , high school near where I was teaching before a does Xanadu and they were on roller skates and I'm like, oh goodness, that sounds like a nightmare. Um, but I think you just took the cake today. Um, I think you just won . Uh , but that's fantastic though. And what a story for , for those students to be able to tell. And I mean, like you said, you're a student at u of I who really you did Starlight Express, like cuz professional companies don't even do that, you know.

Kevin Holly:

And then here we have about a year after we did it, we actually got like a , just a mention in a New York Times article about, cause there was some high school like in Jersey or something that was doing Starlight Express and they must have searched to see if any other high school was crazy enough to do it. And Libertyville must've popped up. So we dealt with just like a little, you know, done in Libertyville in 2000 whatever it was on there.

Jimmy Chrismon:

So that's fantastic.

Kevin Holly:

Um , oh, can I do one other highlight?

Jimmy Chrismon:

Please do, please, please.

Kevin Holly:

Okay . Um, I , I've been just in the right place and at the right time knowing the right people to have done. I've checked her technical director and lit three , uh , Illinois high school theatre festival, all state shows. And those experiences of working with the best kids in the state are, you know, some of my fondest memories. Um, actually , uh , you, I just listened to this morning actually listen to your , um, your chat with, Annalisa Ahlman who was the executive director last year and I did her All state show. Um, we did In the Heights. Um, and , uh, it's just for any, if there are any teachers in Illinois that, you know, have any chance to be a part of the All state show, I would highly recommend it . It's a very difficult schedule because we work all the weekends in the fall, like all the holidays and everything. So it's a challenge schedule wise. But um, wow. What an experience , um, to work with the students that's talented asThat , um, just an example of the , um, one of the girls from In the Heights who was in the ensemble just in the ensemble. She was the girl that won the Illinois high school musical theatre awards. Um , Broadway in Chicago, Best Actress Award this last or earlier this month. And she's off, I think she's in New York now doing that. And she was on , in the ensemble of the, of the All state show. So just the, the talent is just unbelievable. It's like taking the two best kids, you know, in your program right now. And all the All state kids are that talented and that motivated and that dedicated. Um, it's just incredible to be a part of that.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, and I think that's a testament to theatre education in Illinois. A that there's the support for that and , um, that it is, it is so well received, not just for the , the teachers who are the directors and producers, but I mean just the, the staff that get behind that and, and, and the, the kids who get there and , and they work their tails off , um , for those weekends and mount this huge, huge, amazing production at the end of that. It , it blows my mind. I mean, I have, I have my, my students from ISU or an intern education interns and the help out with that every weekend. And they come back with just the best stories and they are so inspired and they can't wait to get in the classroom and work with those kids and, and have their own kids be part of that. So I think what you all do is amazing, when I went, when I was in rock hill, we , we tried to do an all district production , um, and we did it for three years. And that was challenging enough in itself where the kids could drive to your school after, after school every day , and you can rehearse with five, six days a week and put up a show. But I mean, they're what, four or five weekends in the fall, and then there's a tech week and then the show is up. Yeah, yeah ,

Kevin Holly:

yeah. It's increased . It's incredible. Even like going through it three times, like it's still hard to believe when you get to , uh, we switch between U of I and Illinois State every year for the show. And just to get there and just to see what happens. It's, it's incredible. It's, it, it's just like you said, it's a dedication to the teachers and the parents and the kids that, and the , and all the people that support it . You know, the Illinois theatre association. Um, just, just that we do something like that. It's sort of hard to like, if you've never been a part of it, it's sort of hard to fathom what it's like.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Oh yeah. When I, when I came to ISU for my interview , uh, two years ago, I, I was, they told me about this production and how it's part of the, the festival and which the festival itself is a beast and it blew my mind. And then I was like, and then there's this giant production. And then last year, I mean, it was Big Fish two years ago and then that we did In the Heights this past year. And it's like nothing I've ever seen it. It's incredible. So I appreciate the work that you do on that and the opportunities that you give those kids.

Kevin Holly:

Yeah. It's , I think it's worthwhile for everyone, any person that participates in it and done , you know, I did one in 2015 and I still think back to like how incredible it was and, and just the amazing work that the kids did on the show. Yeah. So much fun.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, what , um , w with is as busy as you are and all the things that you have, how do you take care of yourself?

Kevin Holly:

Well, that it's a challenge. Um, I have to be honest. Um, I , uh, my wife makes me walk a lot , um, which, you know, often I don't have time to especially , um, the one thing I don't like about my schedule is that we do, because the, the , the cast usually rehearse in our space after school . So we'll usually do crew in the evenings from six to nine. So it's a long day for me. Um, you know, usually come home late in the afternoon and try to, you know, rest up a little bit and have dinner before I go back. Um, but it's honestly during the school year, especially during the, during your like productions, it's a challenge for me to do that. Um, and honestly I don't do a very good job of it. Um, that's why , um, my wife , uh, my wife Gretchen , um, you know, tries to get me to walk into and I, you know, and I Moan and complain about it, but I know deep down it's good for me. Um , but I like to Moan and complain about it because, you know, so , um, and then on top of that, you know, big credit to my wife because she's really taking care of the family. You know, when I'm, when I'm in Tech Week, when I'm, you know, in the theatre all day from , from nine to five on a Saturday or you know, when I'm doing an all state production, I'm gone all the holiday weekends in the fall. She takes, you know , I have two kids. She takes care of the kids. Well I shouldn't say kids. I have one, I have a sophomore in college and a sophomore in high school. So they're not kids anymore, but they, they haven't been kids in the past. So she really takes care of everything at home . And , and so that's something that I don't have to , um, I don't have to worry about, cause I know that she's got that under control. Um, the one great thing though about, I like that life is that on my schedule, my schedule is really flexible because of the theatre stuff that I do, you know, at night. And, and all the different things that we're working on in the auditorium over the year. So I have lots of flexibility to go to a parent teacher conferences or pick up my daughter who got out school early that day or something like that. So the flexibility, I would not , I , you know, I'm not wanting to give up, but , um, there's some times where I'm really flexible and there's some times where I'm not flexible at all, so that's a challenge. But Gretchen takes care of that for me, so , um, and she gets me to walk. So that helps with my, with my health and I'm, I'm trying to eat right and lose weight and that's always a challenge no matter who you are aware you are. So , um, so I, I wish I had like, oh, like I heard Annaliisa say that she goes to yoga class and I was like, wow, I wish I had time to like, although I did get a bike last Christmas that I'm trying to ride a little bit on to try to, you know, get, get the blood flow and get the heart pumping. So I don't have issues down the line. So, so long story short, again, I don't do a very good job at it, but I try when I can.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Um, I you, you, you gave us three amazing resources , uh, when I, when I asked you about some tech theatre tips and tricks. Uh , do you have any others that you think we might, should just know about? Just theatre teachers in general?

Kevin Holly:

Um, I have two that I really, after listening to some of the podcasts , I have two that I really wanted to share. Um, I belong to USITT, which is United States Institute for Theatre Technology and whenever I can, which is, you know, usually once every three or four or five years depending on, again, it all depends on the schedule, depends on what weekend it's going to be. Um, I was fortunate to go this last March cause it was on a weekend that I didn't have any show responsibilities or anything that , um , I go to the annual , um, stage expo and conference and that as for a theatre person, especially for a technical person, you know, you're not gonna get any professional development as part of our, our school district because, you know, there's two of us at each building and you know, that's not gonna happen. So that's a place where I go to get, you know, get energized, get some professional development, go to workshops , um, hit the stage expo floor and see what's going on. So I recommend that , um, if anyone's involved in technical kinds of things, if the show ever comes near you, it skips around the country different places. I think next year it's in Houston. This year it was past year was in Louisville is to , uh, to , uh , even just by our , uh , stage expo pass for that are a lot of vendors would give them away for free and go check out like the new stuff. Um , they also do lots of , um, uh, displays and presentations by college students that are graduating. They have just incredible amounts of information that you could see and look at and touch and hold. If you need a new soundboard, you know, go to the sound company's booth and check out what they have, let them give you this, feels , see what they're doing. Um, so that's , uh , I , I think for a technical person that's a fantastic resource and they have , um, they have workshops you can go to about all kinds of different topics that you're interested in. It's just fantastic. I love to go to like a lighting workshop every year or a workshop on color cause that's lighting and color is like my , my , my two biggest passions in tech theatre. Um, so I love to go to a workshop on that and just to see what other people have to say about color or you know, you lighting instruments or what , you know , LED is the big thing now. So to find out more about that. And then the second thing I will tell you about, and this is something that any I think any theatre teacher can do. We have a group of high school teachers up here in the northern suburbs we're called NITEt. NITE is the acronym. And that stands for Northern Illinois theatre educators. And Jimmy , it's literally just a group of teachers that get together usually once in the fall, once in the spring. And um, you know, oftentimes in your school you have one theatre teacher, you'll have one and a half theatre teachers. So all of these theatre teachers come together. There's probably, you know, we've got the whole group together on a date that everyone could attend . It'd probably be 40 teachers representing 20 or 25 high schools. Um , so we get together, like I said, once in the fall, once in the spring, and we just get together to talk and find out what the person in the next town is doing, find out what the person , um, you know, in the , in Chicago was doing, find out and finding out what Annalisa Ahlman doing at Niles North this year. And , um, and just , uh, get that professional development that's really hard to get in your school for a theatre person cause they're , you know, there's not a lot of them in a school.

Speaker 5:

So that's something I think cause we hear from people around the state all the time or oh well especially people in the area, what can, you know, can I come to your meeting? And at this point we feel like the groups got into a good size and we don't really want to make it bigger than that because we get unwieldy. Um, so we are , we are, we're always very encouraging. Like, Hey , sorry. Encouraging to say, hey, you know what in your area, get some teachers together and do what we do have a meeting. And so usually we'll do one meeting, we'll do it , we'll get together and just talk. We go to someone's school, they'll provide us lunch. Um, the biggest thing is like finding a date that many people can go to because of production schedules are just all over the place. Um, and then usually the other meeting we'll go see a show downtown or we'll go do a workshop or we'll have , um, a couple of years ago we had like four or five of the educational outreach people at some professional theatres in Chicago.

Kevin Holly:

Like come out and talk to us about what kind of possibilities they have for high school kids, for high school teachers, for us to go see their shows, to have programs done like that. So we sort of alternate back and forth doing that, you know, and even just as simple as listening to the shows that people are doing each year. Like, oh, what's, you know, what's that show about the Tulsa little bit about the show that , that sounds interesting. I should look at that script or, or I think oftentimes people come and say, listen, I need to do, you know, I know this is going to sound like a shock to all the theatre teachers, but I need to do, you know, a big cast and I mean I have lots of female roles, you know, does anyone have any good shows for that? And we'll sort of toss out ideas for that. So it's a really great way to get people that do what you do together in a room and be able to talk about the similarities and the differences between us and how can we make our programs better for the, for the students. So that's a really great thing. I , you know, I just happened to join it a number of years ago and it's a , it's a fantastic resource. It's one of those things where you go to that you'd like to , Oh, I have to, I have to do lesson plans and I'm going to be back to school right before rehearsal. And it's sort of a pain to go there and everything, but when you leave you just feel like energized. Like, oh, this is fantastic. I love hearing that. You know, that person has the exact same problem I have . And we could talk about what can we do to help our situations. So it's a great, it's a great, I recommend it to everybody. It's just a great thing that we do up here to , uh, to make things better for ourselves.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, I think those are both fantastic , uh , recommendations. Cause I, I, I love going to conferences. I love , um, taking workshops and , and , and bettering and learning something new and bettering something that I thought I knew well and uh, coming back, not only ready to add something to what I'm doing in my classroom, but it feeds me as an artist as well. Um, right. And then, and then as far as, so many of us tend to get just locked in the holes of our theatre and not see any outside world or, and then we feel isolated from, from everything else going on. So I, I think we have these amazing Facebook groups cause I mean that's, that's where I met you. Um, but that face to face connection and that, that, that looking at someone in the eye and talking and getting ideas and shaking a hand and, you know, seeing someone you haven't seen in awhile , I mean, that's so important. Um, so, so thank you for bringing that up. I really, really appreciate that. Uh , my final question for you, what are your parting words of wisdom for new teachers? Or any veteran teachers who are either just entering the field or just needing a little boost right now?

Kevin Holly:

Um, I would say, Like I talked about with finding a vendor, like find your resources that you might not know about in your community. Um, I th I think , um, what parents are a really good resource often times. Um , sometimes you never know like who lives in your community. Like over the years, you know, when I was in New York, I know there was one girl whose dad was a lighting designer on Broadway and when he came to talk to us one time , um, about what it's like to be a lighting designer on Broadway , which was fantastic, but even as simple as , um, you know, we had a dad up at aLibertyville who really wanted to help out. He had some construction skills he wanted to help out with sets. And that's fantastic to , to, to get that. We always put a little thing in our program, like if you have any old furniture or you know, period costumes you want to donate, I put my phone number in there or I will come pick it up. Even . Yeah . I, it doesn't hurt to ask. What kind of resources might be available to you? Um, we did , um, the musical Pippin last fall and through like a friend of one of our production people, we found a magician who we did, you know, we did the circus magic kind of theme to our Pippin and we found a magician who live in the area and he had all these cool magic tricks. He's done a lot of stuff at , um, at Great America up in, in our area. Six Flags, Great America and uh , um, like let us use a bunch of his magic tricks and taught us some stuff and we paid them a small song. It was a fantastic resource list , which, you know, we could have done the show without it, but we just happened to find it. Um, a couple of years ago, I got an email from a colleague who was looking for a course if she was doing In the Heights , um, and she was looking for a choreographer that had some specialty in like Latin dance. And so I emailed her back, cause I know I should say I have the hat on right now, that In the Heights hat from the all state show. And uh, and I should say it's, it's one of my favorite shows ever. Part of it is because when I lived in New York, I lived not too far from Washington heights and went travel through there all the time, almost on the subway and ate food and everything. But , um, so she sent out this email about a choreographer , I should say, this is Karen Holla . I'm totally namedropping, And Karen Holla, who's been heavily involved over the years and , in the theatre festival and the Illinois theatre association. So she sent out an email and said, I'm looking for a choreographer and just, I know Karen pretty well. And I emailed her, I know her better now. Um, but I emailed her back and said, hey, I don't have any idea about a choreographer, but if you need a lighting designer like In the Heights is one of my favorite shows and everything. And so, sorry, again, another long story short. Like her TD called me like a week later and said, hey, I heard you might be interested in doing lighting for In the Heights. And so I went and did the lady for In the Heights there. So you never know. And I, you know, I guess the, the advice is, you know, it never hurts to ask. It never hurts to check with people. Hey, do you know someone that could do this or do you have any, you know, sort of like you're asking me, do you have any, any tips or resources that you want to share? Um, you know, I love when people call me and ask me questions or, or want to know, like, how did you guys do this? Or , um, I had just last year, I had a long conversation with someone on the front about Our Town. They're just picking my brain, you know, and I've been doing this a long time. I've done lots of popular shows and oh my gosh, I love it when people want to pick my brain. I'll , I'll have a conversation with you about any show I've got . You know, I've had also had a long conversation with some of the tech people at um , Oak Park River Forest High School last year about Metamorphosis. Um, cause they were going to do it. They wanted to hear about our pool. Oh my gosh. I'll talk about the Metamorphosis pool anytime. Cause it was, it's such a cool thing. You know, you probably could tell by my enthusiasm for, for Starlight Express, you know, whenever that topic comes up I'm tickled to talk about it cause it was such a fantastic experience. So you , you never, I guess it's, it's that old adage you, you don't know what you don't know. So you know, find out what's going on in your community. If there's any resources you can find or were , or ask people or put the word out, I'm looking for something like this or I'm looking for that. You should never know what you're going to find like .

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, Kevin, I have thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you today. I appreciate you reaching out and , uh,

Kevin Holly:

I enjoyed it as well.

Jimmy Chrismon:

I have a , I've, I've learned a lot, so thank you. And , uh, hopefully , uh, the next , uh, theatre fest or if not before then that I'll actually get to meet you in person and shake your head and, but, but keep doing great things with your kids and I , I really appreciate all that you're doing. Thank you.

Kevin Holly:

Well keep educating our future theatre educators that's fantastic.

Jimmy Chrismon:

I will, I will do my best. So thank you. Kevin. Thank you so much, much for joining me on the show. I really appreciate everything you had to say. You had so many great resources , uh , that we can all put to use immediately in our classrooms and I think that's, that's just fantastic and I , uh , very much look forward to meeting you at this year's theatre fest. So thank you for all you're doing for your students and for the students across the state. We're going to turn our attention now to my student teacher, Kelli Lawrence, who is at Thornton Fractional high school Thornton Fractional South High School in Lansing , Illinois. I had the opportunity to go observe her teach this past week. I saw Emma teach this week and both of them had fantastic lessons. Both of them are right where they're supposed to be a developmentally with, with becoming the , the teachers that they are and the teachers they're going to be. Uh , they're all, they're both baking some of the , the rookie mistakes that every student teacher makes. But these two are pretty fantastic and are doing some really great work with their students. So it was awesome to see that this week. So I'm going to turn my attention now to Kelli and let her fill you in on how her week was, so Kelli, tell me about how the last actually two weeks have gone cause it's been two weeks since we've heard from you. We talked to Emma last week . So curious to hear how things have been for you at Thornton Fractional.

Kelli Lawrence:

Yeah. Um, the past two weeks have definitely been unexperienced. Both good and bad at times. Um, but I mean that's how you learn. Right. And I have had a lot of surprises the past two weeks cause the theatre arts two class was one that I was kind of intimidated about taking over but has since turned out to be kind of one of my favorite classes so far just because I love all of the kids in it and everything. And um , they're always so onboard to try new activities and all that. Uh, my theatre production class has definitely taught me a lot about , uh , classroom management the past two weeks. It's been a lot of stuff that happened with that. But other than that, I , I really, I enjoy it a lot and I'm having a really good time, even though it's stressful, but it's , it's good.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, tell us , um, what are a couple of things that have gone really well for you?

Kelli Lawrence:

Um not really well.

Jimmy Chrismon:

or that you're really proud of so far.

Kelli Lawrence:

Yeah. Um, I think this past week for my theatre arts two class, I think I structured the lesson planning very well and because I started them off with a devised theatre unit, so they're all paired off and they're creating their own scenes. Um , and so they were kind of doing that throughout the whole week. But at the beginning of each class I had an activity plan that kind of helps them through a making that scene. So one day we did a story structure activity. One day we did a character development activity. Um , one day we did just kind of more so improv too , but more focused around relationships in that Improv. So , uh , I, I'm a very proud of how I structured that. And one particular one was we were doing a activity called story of death. And essentially what it is, it's four or five students and they have to keep adding on to a story. And whenever I point to one of them, they have to take over. Oh. And it's not necessarily in order it could go back and forth and they could say that could go on for either two minutes or I could cut them off at five words. Um, so they just have to pay attention to what the previous person said, but the goal is to not stutter or keep saying unnecessary information and repeating. And if they do that, then the rest of the students or the audience could say die and they have to have a big dramatic death and everything and then it goes until there's just one person left. And , um, the point of that activity was to kind of show them that story structure is very important because although the story was amusing, it made no sense. It went on and on and on and on and on. There's really no resolution in that story. And , um , before I could even ask them that, they were saying that like certain people were able to stay up there for too long and they should have cut them off sooner because they're adding completely unnecessary information. And , um, so they were kind of already getting it. And it's like that's the point. Like we have to make sure that rather than leaving this up to Improv for your devised scenes, you have to have a well structured story. And then they went on and they filled out a story structure sheet for their scenes. Um, but I thought that specific lesson, I was so happy with that because they were already getting the point of why I had them do it and it was just was fun also because what they come up with is just so funny.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Okay , well good deal. So tell us something that is , um, that has been challenging you, that you're going to continue to work out as you continue with your student teaching.

Kelli Lawrence:

Um, I think definitely classroom management is one big one. Uh, I know I had, I called you after one particular class this past week because I had to start doing a lot of classroom management starting on one day. And uh, it would , it's definitely very hard because it was the first experience that I've had of it to this degree anyways . Like, we've obviously kind of, we've, we've learned about classroom management throughout the past couple of years at the, in theatre Ed, but it's just, it's a whole different experience when it's instead of two kids acting up, it's the entire class. And I , uh , I think you, when I was talking to you on the phone, you hit the nail right on the head by saying that like it the first time that you have to kind of discipline and use classroom management techniques, you feel like you're failing. And like, I absolutely did. Like that. After that class I felt horrible and I didn't know what to do. And um , but after like reflecting on it that entire rest of the night, cause I was all that I was thinking about , um, I was able to come up with a good plan of how to go about it the next day. And , um, just , just being open and honest with them about why I had to, because theatre production, it , it's not exactly a class that you could goof off in , especially when later down the road we're going to be working with very dangerous power tools. That's not something that they should be able to, think that they could get away with bit like this early on in the class. So , um, I was, I was just open and honest with them that next day and said that I genuinely like care about their safety and wellbeing and I don't want them to get hurt or worse. And , um, I , they , they respected that and the students who are not as much of a disruption in class and are ready to learn, they're there kind of helping the others stay on track. So I think it was good for everybody that day.

Jimmy Chrismon:

Well, good. It sounds like you're doing some good things and it sounds like you're learning some things and like I said, just continue to be a sponge and learn everything you can from your cooperating teacher and feel free to call me any time. Um, when I was, when I was there, I saw some really good things and some things that developmentally and where you are in your progress they're, mistakes that you should be making. Um, so , so they're , they're good things. So you're where you need to be and you're some good stuff. So just trust yourself. Just trust yourself. We're not going to let you fall too hard on your face. Okay. All right . I want to thank both of my guests this episodes, Kevin Holly at Libertyville High School and Kelli Lawrence for checking in with me on her student teaching experience so far. Thank you so much for listening. Please visit our website www.thedtalks.com where you can find all of our show notes, our archives, and uh , all the resources from all of our teachers that have been on the podcast. Uh, be sure you go onto any of your favorite podcast providers, Apple Podcasts on iTunes, Google Podcast on Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, Anypod, and Tunein. Go on your favorite provider. Subscribe to us, rate us, review us, and be sure to share what we're doing here at THED Talks with fellow theatre teachers and theatre education students that are out there. Do not forget to submit your questions , situations and stories for our new segments. So this just happened. We want to hear from you. Go on the website, www.thedtalks.com under So this just happened and submit your scenario questions or situations on the form there on that page. We'll read them on the show and discuss them with possible responses, solutions, and interventions to your submissions. My friend Mimi Kuykendall will join me as we discuss those. Submit as many of those as you'd like to to have us read and talk about on the show. But please only submit topics that do not need immediate attention and are not emergency type questions. If you want to discuss it with us on the show, be sure you leave that contact information in that form so we can set up a time to talk. In addition to , so this just happened and the podcast we're going to be introducing this week on all of our social media, what we're calling a Pep Talk. Each week you get an extended fed talk with amazing guests and resources. Now you're also going to start getting a pep talk on our social media where I provide you just a quick three to four minute video where we talk about a particular topic and I give you some, some suggestions, thoughts, and resources that you can use in your life and in your classroom. Be sure to reach out to me on email thedtalkspodcasts @gmail.com send me any questions, send me any thoughts or about the show, any feedback or any suggestions for guests. Or if you'd like to be a guest on the show, let me know that's thedtalkspodcast @gmaildotcom to find us on all your favorite social media on Twitter @theatreedtalks. on Tumblr thedtalks.tumblr .com you can find us on Facebook THED Talks Instagram @thedtalkspodcast, and of course, visit our website at www.thedtalks.com. Thank you Joel Hamlin and Joshua Shusterman for the use of your original music Magnetize and Flip the Record that we use here on the show. And more importantly, thank you for tuning in each week and listening. Please be sure to check out any past episodes you may have missed. Go ahead and subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you have a great week.